MR. KNOLLENBERG: I want to welcome everyone
here to the Compassionate Welfare Reform Forum. If you get all
those words in one phrase then I think you've made some success.
I am excited to be the lead-off individual here. I'm Congress
Joe Knollenberg from the State of Michigan, and it gives me great pleasure to open things up.
I particularly want to thank
the panelists. I want to thank the staff that contributed to
all of this and the others who are responsible for the efforts
that brought about this forum. I want to give
a big "thank you" to Raymond Shamie and David Macdonald for making
this event possible.
Ray, why don't you take a
stand?
[Applause.]
MR. KNOLLENBERG: Both gentlemen,
please, stand, if you would?
[Applause.]
MR. KNOLLENBERG: Because
they made this event possible. Just a quick note, Ray
established the Beacon Hill Institute in 1991 and is the founder
of the Metal Bellows Corporation in Massachusetts. David is president
of the David R. McDonald Foundation and both are experts in the
field and it's an honor to have both of you here today.
Looking back, it's been
almost two years since Congressman Jim Kolbe and
I, and our staffs, put this idea together in late 1994, in the summer
of 1994, and the trail seems to have been long and arduous since
that time. We had no idea what we might be moving into.
We've come a long way since
that time and, frankly, as you know many of my colleagues have embraced this concept. Senator Dan Coats, who is on
the agenda for speaking today; Congressman John Kasich, both introduced the Project for American Renewal Act. And then Congressman Jim
Talent and J.C. Watts, a Congressman from Oklahoma, both of whom introduced
the American Community Renewal Act of 1996. Each has embraced
the charitable tax credit concept by making it a part of their
legislation.
Why a charitable tax credit?
In the 1960s, the Federal Government embarked upon, as you all
know, probably the largest expansion in the nation's history, in terms of Federal programs. Literally
hundreds of new programs came into being. They were created to
provide America's less fortunate with financial assistance, with
food, with housing, education, health care and hopefully, jobs.
And they did this in the hope
that poverty would be eliminated once and for all. But the reality
over the last 30 years and more than $5 trillion later
is that more people today, by most definitions, are living below
the poverty line than they were when this whole thing started.
So, it is clear that the problem
is not how much we spend, it's how we spend it. We built this
giant army to fight the war on poverty. Unfortunately, somewhere
along the way we found ourselves lost in a maze, call them guerilla conflicts.
The historic reforms involved
in the welfare reform system that Congress passed this last year
are a good first step. But, as you all know, we can't stop there.
I think something is missing. And if we're going to finally
turn the corner on this tide on the war on poverty, we have to
go further.
We need a plan that takes
a comprehensive approach toward rebuilding entire communities.
And I, personally, think that the answer lies in the charitable
tax credit. Such an approach would move the Federal Government
away from the wholesale and retail provision of social services
and, instead, make it a facilitator--ff you can believe this--make
the government a facilitator--it can be that, I believe--a facilitator
of economic growth, of capital formation and, most importantly
I think, neighborhood self-help.
This challenge is an opportunity
to get every taxpaying individual, every taxpaying American, involved
in the fight with their tax dollars and whether they're young
or old, middle class or working poor, labor or manager, I mean
everyone, this charity tax credit will allow them to turn their
tax liability into a charitable contribution that will help attack
poverty whether it's with a large national organization or with
a neighborhood or local community charity down the street.
Before we really can comprehend
what this all is, we probably have to understand what a tax credit
is. I know many of you in this room know it very well, better
than I. But it seems like when I talk to groups around my State
and at various forums their eyes kind of glaze over when you talk
about deductible contributions and tax credits.
Let me just briefly explain.
Let me say what the charitable tax credit is not, first of all.
It is not designed to replace the current charitable deduction.
Nor is it meant to replace Federal assistance. Its purpose
is to foster growth of neighborhood nonprofits that seek to fight
poverty within a community.
Under the current system,
those individual contributions can be deducted if you itemize.
And, for example, if you have a taxable income of $30,000 and
you give, say, $100 to your favorite charity that fights poverty,
you can reduce your taxable income by $100. That's taxable income.
The tax credit, on the other
hand, works like this: If you are one of the millions of Americans
who still owes Uncle Sam on April the 15th, a tax credit reduces
the amount of tax that you owe. And, for example, if we use the
concept in our own common-sense welfare reform program, if the
allowable tax credit is $100, for a single filer or $200 for a
joint filer, you simply write a check to the qualifying charity for $100 or
$200 and you reduce your tax payable to the Federal Government
by that amount.
Thus, a person who owes $1,000
in taxes now, with the charitable tax deduction, would only owe
$900 as a single or $800 if it were a joint filing. And those
dollars could be directed right to the charity in your community,
the one around the corner that you know something about.
And, as you can see, the advantage
of the credit is much more beneficial to the individual and the
credit would extend to everyone, not just those people who itemize.
If you look at the 1994 tax returns, individual contributions
accounted for over 80 percent of the $130 billion that was contributed.
But, yet, only one-fourth of those who filed a tax return took
the charitable tax deduction.
I think it's time to open
the door for the countless ordinary people, many of whom file
the short form, to be able to fight poverty in the very same manner.
And by implementing a tax credit, we, as taxpayers, can reward
private charities for doing what they do best by giving prompt,
efficient, temporary assistance to those in need and, at the same
time, you empower individuals to actively seek charities, giving
them a sense of pride and commitment in helping those in need.
And one other thing--I think
this is missed many times when we talk about the charitable tax
credit--volunteerism. We believe that if you are an individual
in Hometown, USA, that has an eye on a particular charity that
perhaps you've been working with or its drawn your attention,
if you are able to convert a Federal tax liability into a contribution
to that particular organization, we believe it will increase your
volunteerism and it might, in fact, increase it to a point where
you will draw others to that particular community center to increase
the possibility of the success of this program.
Volunteerism is something
that, frankly, the American people exceed -- more than any other country in the world. And, I think we've just scratched the surface in many
ways with respect to this kind of program.
Now, the outlook -- and I will conclude before we introduce a couple of people I very much want you to meet.
Embarking on this task is
a very substantial challenge. However, during the 105th Congress,
we can continue to chart our course, that's the one forthcoming,
and find a way to actually implement a charitable tax credit.
Now, whether we accomplish
this goal through a Federal pilot program or implement it at a
State level, any State, it is something I believe we must strive
for. And I know that we, in Congress, and others like you here
today will continue our efforts to make this a reality. I look
forward to continued forums like the one that the Beacon Hill Institute has
presented today.
Despite all the benefits and
the need for a charitable tax credit, there are those who remain
doubtful. Concerns of a substitution effect where an individual
will shift his or her contribution from one charity to another,
depending on the tax advantage or the actual cost of such a program,
are some important hurdles to overcome.
But it's important that we
do not lose the focus, the local focus on the intent of the charity
tax credit by empowering local individuals, people at home, the
average taxpayer, to help fight poverty through their local charities.
And no matter what we hear
today, we can't lose sight of one thing--the individuals who charities
help. We hear of success stories on the news, in the paper occasionally.
We hear them all the time. But we don't see the human face on
those. And what I would like to do, and I'm honored today to
have the opportunity to introduce two people. I'm going to introduce
both Roger Allee and Avis Jones, but first it'll be Roger.
These are people who will share with you their stories. A successful
trail from hopelessness to hope and the influence of the charitable
help which helped guide them.
So, let's just take a moment
now and welcome with a huge round of applause to Roger Allee,
Roger, would you step forward?
[Applause.]
MR. ALLEE: Good morning,
folks.
First, I want to tell you
I'm really shy and I'm dealing with, I'm being treated for this
disease called agoraphobia. That's the fear of people, that's
what they tell me. So, it takes all the courage I got to get
up here and speak to you, but I really think it's important that
you know where I've been and what I came through and where I'm
at now.
I would like to tell you I
grew up in a housing project on welfare. All my brothers and
sisters. I had eight brothers and sisters. We all grew up on
welfare. I chose to never be married and to never have children.
I said I didn't want to put my family, my woman, my children
through that same process. That cost me my family, that decision
did.
I've seen my friends that
I grew up with, they're living in that project right now, they're
raising nine children on welfare. They're going through that
process. Okay.
A few years ago I was employed.
I had a steady job. As a matter of fact, I was working three
jobs. Two was for the same company. I was inspecting surgical
instruments during the day. I would hang around at night and
be the night janitor. And on the side, I was doing landscaping
work, lawn work and stuff and trying to make a decent living.
I took this course, blueprint
reading, trying to better myself with a little more education.
And I had a small savings account in a bank. It was an old trailer,
but I owned it. I had a decent car. I owned it, it was paid
for and I thought I was going to be okay. My boss told me, you
never have to worry about being laid off, Roger, you know, I like
you, you're a good worker.
So, I went on vacation. The
day I got back from vacation, that boss come up to me, he says,
Roger, I'm sorry, we got to lay you off, due to downsizing. Business
is bad. Literally in that day I lost two jobs, my inspector job
and my night janitor job.
I went ahead finished out
that day at work. I went to my third job which was landscaping
and this is in late September so, the weather's getting pretty
bad and landscaping is a seasonal job in Indiana.
I went there and my boss come
up to me and he said, Roger, this is the end of the season, we
got to let you go. This will be your last week at work. And
I said, no, please don't say that because you don't know what
just happened to me. And he said, well, we got to let you go,
the big boss says we got to lay you off. We'll let you work the
rest of this week.
So, I had my savings in the
bank and I was praying and hoping that that would get me through
it until maybe I, I kept dreaming that I would get called back
and I didn't. And problems started arising. Things went wrong
with the trailer. The transmission went out on my car. I had
a girlfriend at the time and we both got laid off and she left
me. We couldn't work things out. We had financial problems and
everything.
And, in the meantime, I'm
getting more and more depressed and this agoraphobia is starting
to take over. I was literally afraid to go anywhere. It almost
made it impossible to go on any more job interviews or anything,
which I had. I did manage to fill out a lot applications and
send out a lot of resumes. But, to be honest with you, some of
them would call me and I wouldn't show up for that interview because
that agoraphobia was holding me back. I was scared to death to
go in there.
And one day I found myself
to where I couldn't make any decisions at all any more. I was
almost catatonic, just one step from catatonic, just the only
thing I could see was the wall and nothing in between.
And, so, mentally, I was really
messed up. And I just left everything in my trailer. I had a
waterbed, nice waterbed, stereo, color TV. I just left it there
and I walked away, just drifted away and I got lost.
And I found myself in this
park one day. I was sitting on a culvert with sewage running
through it. And I actually thought about climbing in there and
just dying and nobody would be able to see me inside there. That's
how bad I felt.
And thank God I found myself
at the Center for the Homeless in South Bend. Before I got there,
I thought all these people in the world, millions and billions
of people in the world and nobody cares about you, Roger, you know.
They don't care if you're hungry or you're dirty or what happened
to you, you know, they're busy.
And I thought God was punishing
me. Kept taking everything away from me and all this pain I was
dealing with and I says, God, if you think I deserve this, let
me have it, but whatever you do I'm not going to be mad at you.
And I never did get mad at him.
But I walked in the Homeless
Center and I was scared but the staff there just come up to me
and they reassured me that I was going to be okay. They started
to protect me and help me in any way I could. Because when I
went through those doors, my intentions were just to get cleaned
up and get a little bit to eat because I hadn't had nothing to
eat for like six days and try to get my thoughts back together
to where I could make two decisions and that was where I could
end my life and how I could end my life. And it hurt to even
try to decide on how to do that.
The staff said, Roger, we
just want you to just try to relax and collect your thoughts and
we're going to get back to you in a few days. They came back
to me in a few days and they says, we'd like you to try this,
Roger, or try this. And it was to see a counselor. They have
classes there. One of them is "Stepping Higher and Starting
Over". They sort of reteach you life skills, social skills,
and I told them, I says, if you think that'll help me, I'm willing
to try it. I have only one thing to lose and that's my life.
And I tried it. And they
hooked me up with a psychologist or psychiatrist and I made it
through their curriculum. And they said, Roger, we can straighten
out, we can help you straighten out your credit, which wasn't
bad. I didn't want to screw up anything. I didn't want to leave
this world owing anyone anything. So, I didn't screw up my credit
too bad. I owed the gas company and the telephone community and
that's the bills I had when I was homeless.
And now today, I still see
a psychologist once a week. I see a psychiatrist once a month
and I go back over to that homeless center at least a couple of
times a week. And I speak to the homeless people there that are
going through these same classes that I went through, and I try
to encourage them to take care of their problems and go through
that curriculum where they could get employment and sort of follow
me in my path.
I sort of like looked at it
as I packed down the snow so they could follow me. I left a path
for them to see. Today, I've been employed for over two years.
I own my own home. I have a real nice home. A two-bedroom home,
a basement, a beautiful yard. I'm proud of it. I have a wonderful
job. It's not inspecting surgical instruments any more or anything.
I'm a custodian for the University of Notre Dame, but I love
it. I enjoy going into work and I love going home at night and
cooking whatever I want to eat. That's a big thing now to me,
you know, to decide what do you want for dinner tonight? And
I love it.
I couldn't of did it without
people at the Homeless Center that was compassionate and cared
about me, I couldn't do it on my own. I just couldn't. I was
ashamed of myself for not being able to do that.
And I want to give back to
the community. I don't want welfare. That wasn't my decision
when I was a child. And when I grew up I promised myself, I'll
never be on welfare and I haven't since I grew up.
But I do need someone that
cares about me and the only place I could find that was the Homeless
Center in South Bend. I appreciate you folks listening to me
and letting me tell you my story.
God bless all of you.
[Applause.]
MR. KNOLLENBERG: Roger, thank
you very, very much for coming today.
Before I introduce Avis, let
me introduce two gentlemen who have embraced this concept. They
have come into the room and they'll be here for the program and
will be a part of the luncheon activity. In fact, will keynote
this forum today. They are Senator Dan Coats, would you please
stand, Senator?
[Applause.]
MR. KNOLLENBERG: And Congressman
John Kasich.
[Applause.]
Now, for the second part of
what we promised we want to introduce Avis Jones to come up and
give her story on this very same situation that Roger revealed.
You can give her applause.
[Applause.]
MS. JONES: Hi, my name is
Avis Jones, and I am a recovering alcoholic and addict. I would
like to take a moment of silence and pray and ask God that I speak
from my heart and at least I can reach and touch at least one
person in this room that can understand where I'm coming from.
Once again, my name is Avis.
I'm originally from Gary, Indiana. I've been in four drug treatment
programs. My family brought me to South Bend after my abuse of
drugs and alcohol and I entered into the Women's Journey which
is called the YWCA.
After being there for 45 days,
I got put out of treatment because I broke a rule. I got into
a relationship. I knew I couldn't go back to Gary because of
the abuse of drugs and to myself that I had put upon me. So,
I ended up at the Center for the Homeless.
When I entered the Center
for the Homeless, I had a lot of anger, resentments. I didn't
have any respect for authority figures. And I met a counselor
there and she just told me that I had to start believing in someone
and putting my life into someone's hands. I had no concept of
a God or a higher power.
So, after a couple of days,
I did that. I started talking about the pain that I was going
through and as I was into the Center for the Homeless my drug
or my alcohol abuse was just only a symptom of my problem. Avis
was the problem.
I started working at a nursing
home and I started having old, acting in bad behavior patterns
again. So, they told me to quit that job. And I did that. I
had to do whatever it took for me to become a member of society
again.
I entered into the programs
there which were "Stepping Higher, Starting Over" and
I knew basically about the spiritual part, the emotional part,
the physical part, and the mental part but I fused all those into
a negative aspect of my life. I came from abandoned buildings,
I ate out of garbage cans. I barely bathed.
Going through that program,
"Stepping Higher, Starting Over", I learned how to do
the basic things all over again, washing up, brushing my teeth,
getting in contact with a higher power, which I choose to call
God. If it wasn't for him, I wouldn't be standing here today,
I would have been dead.
As I completed that program,
I got into the NOVA program which is "New Occupational Vocational
Attitude." I knew how to get a job, I didn't know how to
keep one because of my drug addiction.
That program taught me how
to present myself to an employer, how to sell myself, to get in
touch with my skills and the basics of reality and how to deal
with life on life's terms.
I completed that program and
I got into a program which is called "In-House Training."
And I thought I was too good for In-House Training. I knew how
to get a job, like I said, but this counselor there said, how
could they sign their signature on an application for me if they
didn't know anything about my work behavior patterns?
So, I went on into that In-House
Training. It taught me a lot of humility. Once I got clean and
started going to meetings and I started working I forgot about
where I came from. And something, while I was at the Center for
the Homeless, something traumatic happened to my life and I started
seeing a therapist there.
I've been clean and sober
for, will be, two years in March and I've been in therapy for
almost two years. And one of the guests at the Center for the
Homeless asked me how long will you go to therapy? And my sponsor
told me if it works, don't fix it. So, I probably will go to
therapy for the rest of my life because I will be an alcoholic
and an addict for the rest of my life. But, at one day at a time,
I hope through the grace of God and through the tables of the
program and staying connected with the Center that I can stay
clean one day at a time.
After I completed the programs
at the Center for the Homeless I went out and took a job. I was
working at a nursing home and I stayed there for a whole year.
This case manager of mine asked me what about coming back, giving
back to the community, to take on a job position at the Center
for the Homeless.
I thought I wasn't qualified
for that job. I beat myself up all the time. Even today I beat
myself up. Before I got that job I had to go through 11 interviews.
That's the most interviews I ever went through in my lifetime.
But the thing is I prayed
about it. I talked to my sponsor. I talked to my family. And
the thing about it that came over me if I didn't get the job I
wouldn't have been disappointed. It was that I got the experience
out of all the interviews how to talk to people, how to look people
in the eyes and how to sell myself as a productive member of society.
And then I finally had my
final interview with Lou Nanni and he asked me how would I handle
stress? And he said going through success and coming up the ladder
in my program, what would I do to release my stress?
Stress for me came when I
was addicted to drugs and alcohol. It was when I couldn't pay
my rent, when I was pawning my car and all my material things
to the dope people and to pawn shops. That was stressful. When
I couldn't buy myself food. When I couldn't put clothing on my
back or shelter around me, that was stressful.
But since I've been in the
program of AA and NA there's no stress. I keep a balance in my
life. I maintain my life.
Stress? I told him how I
would handle it. First of all, I have God in my life. Second
of all, recovery comes second. Third, I come third. Fourth,
my job comes fourth.
I have a sponsor, and he's
been clean for 11 years and on his cup he writes, "The Gift."
One night I was praying and I always thank God for keeping me
clean for that day and at the beginning of the morning I ask him
for help to keep me clean for another day.
And as I was getting off my
knees, the gift to me meant a servant is a gift to receive, it's
not a goal to achieve.
[Applause.]
